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CT60 and related things BBS
| Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better |
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Posted by: Nature
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May,19.2005-13:33
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Ok, we'll say what we think about this too then... :)
A PCI adapter seems great for interfacing any card you like, provided that SOMEONE is willing to write all the drivers, and more importantly, is able to get the documentation for each device. This has been a great obstacle for for example the Eclipse PCI adapter. There was documentation of the 2D part of the ATI Rage card, but the 3D stuff is secret.
Another thing with interfacing a graphics card on a PCI bus is of course the compatibility issue. With the Ecplise you had to boot the computer on one monitor, and then you would switch to the one that the ATI Rage card was driving when fVDI was loaded. This is not a prefered solution for many of us.
Fitting the PCI bridge inside the standard cased falcon is another problem, especially if you want more than one PCI slot. A flat cable is no option at the bus speeds that the CT60 uses. So the speed would need to be lowered if you use a flat cable. A flex cable is an option but very expensive...
Rodolphe:
We're aiming at 200 Euro + VAT for the Supervidel, depending on how many order it. 100 is minimum. The FPGA is still the most expensive component, though its price has gone down to half since we last looked it up (now it's approx 55 USD). The other main components have not changed their price (Flash PROM for the FPGA, DAC, SO-DIMM connector, voltage regulators). The PCB is also quite expensive, since we need at least 6 layers. On top of this you have to get a DDR SO-DIMM yourself.
200 Euro + VAT for the Supervidel is not expensive compared to the price of its components and the amount of work behind it (the work inside the FPGA is more than the PCB...). I remember paying 300 Euro for the first CT60, which has a cheaper Bill of Materials than the Supervidel.
Odd Skancke:
It's much more difficult to give the SV a PCI interface, because of the PCI protocol. And the CT60-bus interface is already working...
We think interrupts via the PCI interface would be more difficult and less compatible too (now we execute the HBL and VBL autovectors directly).
We're not using the PMMU for moving the Videl registers in the address space. Instead we're using bus snooping, which means we copy all writes to the ST-RAM into 16 MB of the graphics RAM on the SV without any overhead. And the SV answers all Videl register accesses before the real Videl does, making the SV fully compatible WITHOUT ANY software drivers.
Regarding the PCI-X option: Neither we nor Rodolphe (we think) have the equipment necessary to design and test a 2.5 Gb/s serial bus...
Peter:
Bandwidth on PCI and CT60 bus:
CT60bus:
100MHz x 32bit => theoretical max 400 MB/s
BUT, our oscilloscope measurements show that because of the poor grounding in the CT60 expansion connector (8 GND in 100 signals = POOR signal integrity) signals get switching times of approx 15 ns (should be 2-4ns). So you can't use full speed at 100MHz (10ns cycle time)... max 66MHz, maybe less. This means data bursts (move16) would have to be split up so that each of the four longwords is transferred in two cycles. This makes no difference for the assembly coder (can still use move16), but the instruction would take 8 cycles (2-2-2-2) instead of 5 (2-1-1-1). This is unfortunate, but the super blitter would still be able to transfer 200MB/s on the CT60 bus, and 2GB/s to/from the DDR SDRAM.
PCI:
Maybe 33MHz x 32bit (PCI-33) or 66Mhz x 32bit (PCI-66). But the CT60 bus would still be the limiting factor, because of the signal integrity reasons.
So our conclusion is that PCI on the CT60 would be good for anything but graphics cards, if you appreciate the Videl compatibility.
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[All messages in this thread] [Start new thread]
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Topic
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Posted by
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Date
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PCI Bridge
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RobM
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May,15.2005-18:15
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Ozk
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May,15.2005-18:21
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Gildor
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May,16.2005-14:44
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Re: PCI Bridge
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vulgar
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May,16.2005-21:52
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Ozk
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May,16.2005-22:32
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Adam Klobukowski
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May,17.2005-07:37
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Re: PCI Bridge
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-XI-/Satantronic
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May,17.2005-09:02
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Re: PCI Bridge
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mikro
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May,17.2005-09:22
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Re: PCI Bridge
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raphael
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May,17.2005-09:42
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Re: PCI Bridge
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deez
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May,17.2005-11:21
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Re: PCI Bridge
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sqward
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May,17.2005-11:53
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Re: PCI Bridge
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plicken
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May,17.2005-12:37
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Re: PCI Bridge
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neurotics
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May,17.2005-14:31
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Re: PCI Bridge
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tobias
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May,17.2005-15:06
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Cih
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May,17.2005-15:26
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Philipp Donzé
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May,17.2005-15:50
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Re: PCI Bridge
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samf
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May,17.2005-16:04
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Re: PCI Bridge
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CiH
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May,17.2005-17:56
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Coda
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May,17.2005-18:08
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Re: PCI Bridge
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gwEm
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May,17.2005-19:08
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Didier Méquignon
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May,17.2005-19:49
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Re: PCI Bridge
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JoeIron
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May,17.2005-20:18
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Anonyme
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May,17.2005-20:38
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Zorro
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May,17.2005-20:41
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Mark
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May,17.2005-22:52
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Re: PCI Bridge
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cruzito
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May,18.2005-00:36
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Peter
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May,18.2005-09:00
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Rodolphe
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May,18.2005-10:05
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Re: PCI Bridge
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ozk
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May,18.2005-15:54
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Darth Vader
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May,19.2005-10:04
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Re: PCI Bridge
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evil
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May,20.2005-08:06
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Re: PCI Bridge
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ozk
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May,18.2005-12:05
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Crash
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May,18.2005-15:13
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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ozk
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May,18.2005-15:49
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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vulgar
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May,18.2005-17:16
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Ozk
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May,18.2005-20:12
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Ozk
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May,18.2005-20:15
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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CiH
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May,18.2005-21:23
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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cruzito
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May,19.2005-01:14
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Peter
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May,19.2005-08:42
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Coda
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May,19.2005-12:44
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Nature
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May,19.2005-13:33
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Coda
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May,20.2005-17:12
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Ozk
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May,20.2005-21:10
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Re: PCI ok, Supervidel better
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Instream
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May,21.2005-14:41
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PCI good, SV better!
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Dark Willow
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May,22.2005-17:34
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Re: PCI good, SV better!
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Crash
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May,25.2005-01:35
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Re: PCI good, SV better!
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samf
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Jun,01.2005-20:31
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Re: PCI good, SV better!
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Dark Willow
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Jun,05.2005-22:13
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Re: PCI Bridge
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Piotr Kruzycki
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May,21.2005-23:19
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What's the anti-troll code?
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Don't have a code or forgot it? Fix it here.
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